The Problem for Agnostics...Tim Warner

Agnostics - What Kind of God Would You Want?



The question that ought to be asked by someone questioning God's existence is this: What kind of evidence would the God portrayed in the Bible give?

He is presented in Scripture as a God who desires a personal relationship with those whom He created in His own image.

Logically, we should expect the evidence to be the kind of evidence that engenders us to trust Him in a personal relationship. And trust is based on a consistent record -- faithfulness in keeping one's word.

When we look in Scripture we see a  long record of God's interaction with a select group of people [individually and collectively] -- the nation that sprang from the loins of Abraham through Sarah.

And that nation exists today.

It is not difficult to judge whether God's claims about that nation are true, whether Israel's history bears out God's making good on His promises and threats, and whether Israel's modern history is consistent with what God has said.

This historical record is spread over four thousand years. It gives us a very good body of evidence to assess this God and decide whether He deserves our trust or whether He is the figment of a collective consciousness. Israel has survived all these centuries against incredible odds, just as God promised.

Yet she has suffered in exile also, just as He threatened.

She has never had, and will never have, peace and permanent possession of the land until she acknowledges her Messiah Jesus.

Forty years before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, Jesus warned,

"If you have known, even you, especially in your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you, and close you in one every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation. (Luke 19:42-44).

Jesus' prophecy was fulfilled to the letter, when Titus and the Roman armies leveled Jerusalem and the Temple. And He predicted that "Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" (Luke 21:24).

That has indeed been the state of Jerusalem ever since.

           ---From The Mystery of the Mazzaroth, by Tim Warner



The Bible presents convincing evidence that the God portrayed in its pages is faithful to His Word.

Quoteworthy - Godly answer from an ungodly scientist

Godly answer from an ungodly scientist...

This quote from Robert Jastrow, astronomer and physicist, founder and director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, and self-described agnostic. He died in 2008. But these words will live on for future generations:

For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.

He Spoke for Himself (US)

It is a story that is hard to believe - that the Omnipotent God, Creator and Sovereign Ruler of the Universe, would come to earth in the body of a human being, live a life of perfect righteousness and obedience, suffer a cruel death -- all to redeem His fallen and disobedient unworthy creatures and save them forever.

I know it's hard to believe.

That's why most people don't believe it.

To millions (billions?) of people it is the most outlandish claim possible.

"God would never do such a thing. Not a real God.
Maybe a make-believe God (on the other hand, who would make up such an outlandish story?) but not a real God," people say to me.

"My God is just too great to do such a thing," a friend told me.


I tried to explain -- that's exactly why He did it - because He is so great!


Wonder if you loved a woman, I asked my friend -- really loved her, wanted to be with her forever -- would you go yourself and tell her, or would you send her a message -- an email or text, or send a friend to tell her.

Of course not! You would go yourself.

God did that. He sent His prophets and His messages, but when it came time to really show His love, He came Himself!

God displays the greatness of His love, not by staying far from us, but by coming directly to us.

There's a great tale from the early Puritan days of America that reflects this.


We all learned it as children.


Henry Wadsworth Longfellow recorded it in verse in
The Courtship of Miles Standish.


     Romantic love was important to the Puritans.

     Miles Standish, the military leader of the Plymouth colony, loved Priscilla Mullins.  He was not good with words and had difficulty expressing himself.

     His dear young friend, John Alden, was a thoughtful and clever writer.

     John was good with words and passionate, and so Miles asked him to go to Priscilla and make his case. To tell her that he loved her and wanted to marry  her.

     The problem was that John also loved Priscilla. But loyal to his dear friend, he went to Priscilla to deliver the love message.

     As he approached the little cabin where Priscilla sat spinning, he could hear her singing. He gathered flowers into a bouquet and listened for a few moments.

(Remember what she was singing? Longfellow tells us it was Psalm 100!)

     He went to the door and greeted her, shared some random conversation and then gave her his important message from Miles Standish, explaining that Captain Standish was very busy and wanted John to deliver his heart-felt desire for her.

     Her answer?

       "Has he not time for such things, as you call it,
     before he is married, would he be likely to
     find it, or make it, after the wedding?

       "That is the way with you men; you don't
     understand us, you cannot.

       "....When one is truly in love, one not only
     says it, but shows it....

       "...Why don't you speak for yourself, John Alden?"


So Priscilla Mullins married John Alden -


If Miles had come himself, Longfellow indicates, the tale would have had a different ending.


When John Alden came to visit Priscilla, he heard her singing Psalm 100 -- a real favorite of the Puritans.

Here are the words of another  hymn - one sung by the early Christians in Philippi -- recorded by the Apostle Paul in Philippians 2:6-11--

     (5) Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

     Who, being in the very nature God,

     did not consider equality with God something

     to be grasped

     But made Himself nothing,

     Taking the very nature of a servant,

     Being made in human likeness

     And being found in appearance as a man,

     He humbled Himself and became obedient

     to death--even death on a cross!

     Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place

           And gave Him the name that is

     above every name

     That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

     in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

     and every tongue confess that

     Jesus Christ is Lord,

     To the glory of God the Father.

Because of His greatness and His all-consuming love, He came Himself! He didn't send angels or videos -

God spoke for Himself!

PS Wouldn't be great if we knew the tunes the early Christians used to sing their hymns?

Hopeful Explains His Hope - Pilgrim's Progress

From John Bunyan's classic Pilgrim's Progress: How Hopeful Gained His Hope.

While traveling toward the Celestial City, Christian asks Hopeful how he came to be on the road headed for the heavenly destination....


Christian: And could you, at any time, easily throw off the feeling of guilt?

Hopeful: No, indeed, for when I tried to do that, sin seemed to take a stronger hold on me. Still, when I considered going back to my old sins, that brought on additional distress, for my mind had been changed, and the idea was repulsive.

Christian: And what did you do then?

Hopeful: I tried to mend my ways....I thought that was the only way to find peace...I quit my sins -- what I considered to be sins --  but also my sinful company and I took up good works, such as praying regularly, reading the Bible, going to church, giving to charity, speaking the truth. These things and many others I was careful to observe.

Christian: How did it happen then that your troubles came back, since you were living a moral life?

Hopeful: Several things caused me to doubt and to feel that all was not well.

For instance such sayings as these: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done" (Titus 3:5); "All our righteousness is as filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6); "Being justified by faith we have peace with God" (Romans 5:1); "Except a man be born again he shall not see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

From these plain emphatic statements I would reason like this: If it is not by works of righteousness or works of the law
that a man is justified and saved, then I am not saved.

If I had real faith, I would be justified and have peace in my heart. Therefore, it must be that I am not born of God. And if I am not born of God, I can never see the kingdom of God.

Another thing that troubled me after my reformation was when I examined closely my best deeds, I could see evil mixed with the good --  wrong motives, selfishness, and pride.

So I was forced to conclude that in spite of all my efforts and good opinions of myself, I was still committing enough sin to send me to Hell, even if my former life had been faultless.

Christian: And what did you do?

Hopeful: Do? I did not know what to do. I went to Faithful with my problem (he and I were close friends).

He told me that unless I could obtain the righteousness of a man who was perfect and who had never sinned, neither my own righteousness nor all the righteousness of the world could save me.

Christian: And did you believe he was telling you the truth?

Hopeful: Yes, After I saw my own corruption and the sin that clung to my best performance, I had to admit he was right.

Christian:  Did you believe such a man could be found? And did you ask him who this man was and where he could be found?

Hopeful:  Yes, and he told me that the man was Jesus Christ, who was now seated at the right hand of God, and he said that I must be justified by Him by trusting in Him and what He did for me when He died upon the cross.

I asked him how that man's righteousness could be effectual in justifying another before God.

And he told me that He died not for Himself, but for me, to atone for my sins, to pay off all my debt to God, and that God had accepted what He did for me, and that when I believed in Him and what He did, His righteousness world be imputed to me.

Christian: What did you think of that?

Hopeful: I believed that Jesus was righteous and that He died for the sins of the world; yet I doubted that He would impute His righteousness to one so sinful as myself, and I imagined that He would condemn such before God -- and rightly so.

Christian: And what did Faithful say?

Hopeful: He said, "Why not go to Him and see?" And I said that would presumptuous. He said, "No, for you are invited to come!" 

He gave me a book of the very words of Jesus, encouraging me to come.

I asked him what I must do when I came to Christ.

He said I must plead with all my heart and soul to the Father to reveal Him to me.

He said, "You will find Him at the mercy seat, where He sits all year long, granting pardons and forgiveness to them that come.

You simply say (and mean it with all your heart): "God be merciful to me a sinner. I acknowledge and confess my sinfulness and all my sins. Help me to know and believe in Jesus Christ, for I see that without His righteousness and mercy, and unless I believe in that righteousness and accept His offered mercy, I shall be lost forever.

"Lord, I have heard that you are a merciful God, and that You have ordained your Son, Jesus Christ, to be the Savior of the world, and that You are willing to bestow His goodness and mercy upon a poor lost sinner like me -- and I am a wretched, helpless sinner indeed.

"Lord, now take my sins and give me Your righteousness. Magnify Your grace in the salvation of my soul.

In Jesus' name. Amen."

Christian: What particular effect did this have on your spirit and life?

Hopeful: My heart overflowed with joy and peace, also with love for Jesus Christ -- His words, His ways, and His people.

He let me see that all the world, notwithstanding all the righteousness in it, is in a state of condemnation and that God the Father, though He is absolutely just, can justly justify the ungodly sinner who believes.

I was now extremely ashamed of my past life and perfectly amazed at my profound ignorance, for I had never before seem the unsurpassed beauty of the love of God revealed in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I now felt that if I had a thousand lives to give, I would gladly give them all in the service of the Lord Jesus Christ and for His sake.

~~~~~

And that's why we still call it "Amazing Grace'!

Lyrical praises and thanks to God

Love these words!

The words can be sung to the traditional Welsh lullaby melody "All Through the Night".

For the fruit of all creation
Thanks be to God
Gifts bestowed on every nation
Thanks be to God
For the plowing, sowing, reaping
Silent growth while we are sleeping
Future needs of earth's safekeeping
Thanks be to God!

In the just reward of labor
God's will is done
In the help we give our neighbor
God's will is done
In our worldwide task of caring
For the hungry and despairing
In the harvests we are sharing
God's will is done!

For the harvests of the Spirit
Thanks be to God
For the good we all inherit
Thanks be to God
For the wonders that surround us
For the truths that still confound us
Most of all that love has found us
Thanks be to God!

(Note: how many times do we thank God that He has given us

so many deep "truths that still confound us" - luring us ever deeper into His Word as He continually reveals more about Himself to us?

The adventures of searching out His Word -- new every day!)

MOST OF ALL THAT LOVE HAS FOUND US!!!